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Post by alphagirl01 on Feb 2, 2022 22:23:18 GMT -5
He always says he doesn't care about those things so maybe he really doesn't. Paul hasn't said anything either, neither has Denaun or Royce. I would at least expect to see Denaun or Paul share it.  I also noticed that Paul shared this, saying that Alchemist and his brother are like little brothers to him. Has he ever expressed a sentiment like this for Marshall? and yet he chooses to feed Em with Royce's beats instead of Al's. I will never understand this I think Paul stays chummy with Royce for his own needs. I also think that is why he started Goliath. One day Marshall is going to stop rapping and I wouldn't be surprised if Paul wants to still produce people on his own label. As annoying as Royce can be, talented Black artists go to him for guidance. Even Big Sean said as much as he likes Em, Royce is his mentor. Paul knows he can use Royce as a funnel to get new talent on his label. Alchemist isn't a pipeline to new talent or a way for Paul to magnify is revenue stream. One thing Paul has proven time and time again, he's all about business. |
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Post by matty on Feb 2, 2022 22:30:27 GMT -5
and yet he chooses to feed Em with Royce's beats instead of Al's. I will never understand this I think Paul stays chummy with Royce for his own needs. I also think that is why he started Goliath. One day Marshall is going to stop rapping and I wouldn't be surprised if Paul wants to still produce people on his own label. As annoying as Royce can be, talented Black artists go to him for guidance. Even Big Sean said as much as he likes Em, Royce is his mentor. Paul knows he can use Royce as a funnel to get new talent on his label. Alchemist isn't a pipeline to new talent or a way for Paul to magnify is revenue stream. One thing Paul has proven time and time again, he's all about business. Which is the reason Royce likes to name drop Em any chance he gets so the younger people think he is their only connection to Em and why Paul keeps Em in his little bubble. You can tell Royce recently goes out of his way to mention how good of a friend he is with em in interview. It’s very forced. He also wanted to make sure everyone knew it was him who convinced Em to do the cypher song when Em REALLY didn’t want to do it so all the young artists go to him. Plus again Em didn’t WANT to do BME at first- he wanted to focus on SH. It was Paul and royce ambushing him on his tour bus convincing Em to do it. And the only reason they signed SH was everyone telling Em that Joe’s rep wasn’t real so he eventually agreed to sign them. This is why I say Shady records (besides 50) was horrible for Ems career. Paul put the label in front of Ems wants and needs and anytime Paul fucked up Em was collateral damage. Again it’s interesting when they signed grip and put out a statement Em said he wasn’t gonna be involved in the album lol. I think Em is over it. It’s kind of gross Also to get SH out of their contract joe said Paul made them sign somethjng where he isn’t allowed to publicly defame Paul (not just Em) anymore. I hate joe and think he is a narcissist freak but it makes me wonder what Paul doesn’t want to be made public about himself - my bet is something that he doesn’t want Em to know aka get mad abojt 🤷♀️ |
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Post by alphagirl01 on Feb 2, 2022 23:21:01 GMT -5
I think Paul stays chummy with Royce for his own needs. I also think that is why he started Goliath. One day Marshall is going to stop rapping and I wouldn't be surprised if Paul wants to still produce people on his own label. As annoying as Royce can be, talented Black artists go to him for guidance. Even Big Sean said as much as he likes Em, Royce is his mentor. Paul knows he can use Royce as a funnel to get new talent on his label. Alchemist isn't a pipeline to new talent or a way for Paul to magnify is revenue stream. One thing Paul has proven time and time again, he's all about business. Which is the reason Royce likes to name drop Em any chance he gets so the younger people think he is their only connection to Em and why Paul keeps Em in his little bubble. You can tell Royce recently goes out of his way to mention how good of a friend he is with em in interview. It’s very forced. He also wanted to make sure everyone knew it was him who convinced Em to do the cypher song when Em REALLY didn’t want to do it so all the young artists go to him. Plus again Em didn’t WANT to do BME at first- he wanted to focus on SH. It was Paul and royce ambushing him on his tour bus convincing Em to do it. And the only reason they signed SH was everyone telling Em that Joe’s rep wasn’t real so he eventually agreed to sign them. This is why I say Shady records (besides 50) was horrible for Ems career. Paul put the label in front of Ems wants and needs and anytime Paul fucked up Em was collateral damage. Again it’s interesting when they signed grip and put out a statement Em said he wasn’t gonna be involved in the album lol. I think Em is over it. It’s kind of gross Also to get SH out of their contract joe said Paul made them sign somethjng where he isn’t allowed to publicly defame Paul (not just Em) anymore. I hate joe and think he is a narcissist freak but it makes me wonder what Paul doesn’t want to be made public about himself - my bet is something that he doesn’t want Em to know aka get mad abojt 🤷♀️ I agree with what you said matty. I actually think that Paul low-key uses Marshall. I think Marshall is very loyal and trusting to people he has known for a while, as long as they don't obviously diss him. There is something naive about him. I have read where he has said that he feels like he never fits in anywhere and I think Paul knows how to work that. I mean, everyone around him was hired by Paul, including Tracy, who is actually hired by Goliath Artists and then started working for Shady. I think Paul has Tracy help keep Marshall in a bubble and in turn she "gets" Marshall. All kind of creepy in my humble opinion. Too bad Proof isn't still around or he isn't around 50 Cent more. I like how direct 50 Cent is. When he stood up to Jimmy, I was like, you go Curtis! I also remember I saw a video where 50 Cent, Paul, Marshall and Tracy were hanging out back stage and Tracy was trying to reach into 50 Cents pocket to pull out a wad of money he had and he looked at her and moved away, like why are you putting your hand in my pocket and he pulled the wad out and handed it to here as he moved away from her like, ugh this unattractive woman just tried to touch my butt.Obviously looks aren't everything, butt she is like a bull in a China shop. She's quite kitschy and garish. |
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Post by matty on Feb 2, 2022 23:25:48 GMT -5
Which is the reason Royce likes to name drop Em any chance he gets so the younger people think he is their only connection to Em and why Paul keeps Em in his little bubble. You can tell Royce recently goes out of his way to mention how good of a friend he is with em in interview. It’s very forced. He also wanted to make sure everyone knew it was him who convinced Em to do the cypher song when Em REALLY didn’t want to do it so all the young artists go to him. Plus again Em didn’t WANT to do BME at first- he wanted to focus on SH. It was Paul and royce ambushing him on his tour bus convincing Em to do it. And the only reason they signed SH was everyone telling Em that Joe’s rep wasn’t real so he eventually agreed to sign them. This is why I say Shady records (besides 50) was horrible for Ems career. Paul put the label in front of Ems wants and needs and anytime Paul fucked up Em was collateral damage. Again it’s interesting when they signed grip and put out a statement Em said he wasn’t gonna be involved in the album lol. I think Em is over it. It’s kind of gross Also to get SH out of their contract joe said Paul made them sign somethjng where he isn’t allowed to publicly defame Paul (not just Em) anymore. I hate joe and think he is a narcissist freak but it makes me wonder what Paul doesn’t want to be made public about himself - my bet is something that he doesn’t want Em to know aka get mad abojt 🤷♀️ I agree with what you said matty. I actually think that Paul low-key uses Marshall. I think Marshall is very loyal and trusting to people he has known for a while, as long as they don't obviously diss him. There is something naive about him. I have read where he has said that he feels like he never fits in anywhere and I think Paul knows how to work that. I mean, everyone around him was hired by Paul, including Tracy, who is actually hired by Goliath Artists and then started working for Shady. I think Paul has Tracy help keep Marshall in a bubble and in turn she "gets" Marshall. All kind of creepy in my humble opinion. Too bad Proof isn't still around or he isn't around 50 Cent more. I like how direct 50 Cent is. When he stood up to Jimmy, I was like, you go Curtis! I also remember I saw a video where 50 Cent, Paul, Marshall and Tracy were hanging out back stage and Tracy was trying to reach into 50 Cents pocket to pull out a wad of money he had and he looked at her and moved away, like why are you putting your hand in my pocket and he pulled the wad out and handed it to here as he moved away from her like, ugh this unattractive woman just tried to touch my butt.Obviously looks aren't everything, butt she is like a bull in a China shop. She's quite kitschy and garish. I don’t know much about Tracy except she helped Em get sober so I can’t comment too much about her Also I don’t think going for a woman’s looks is necessary. I think she is pretty. Just not into make up and just cuz she is tall and not a size 2 doesn’t mean she is a China shop I do agree that his camp is confusing though and I don’t trust everything they do and their intentions. But at the same time it’s all really a guess game I just know after studying royces actions for almost two years now (give me a break it’s a pandemic) that he is shady and not just with em but with almost everyone and I think he is closer to Paul than he is to Em. Idk if Paul is just crappy at his job tho or his intentions are really bad. That’s where I’m torn |
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Post by alphagirl01 on Feb 2, 2022 23:50:39 GMT -5
I agree with what you said matty . I actually think that Paul low-key uses Marshall. I think Marshall is very loyal and trusting to people he has known for a while, as long as they don't obviously diss him. There is something naive about him. I have read where he has said that he feels like he never fits in anywhere and I think Paul knows how to work that. I mean, everyone around him was hired by Paul, including Tracy, who is actually hired by Goliath Artists and then started working for Shady. I think Paul has Tracy help keep Marshall in a bubble and in turn she "gets" Marshall. All kind of creepy in my humble opinion. Too bad Proof isn't still around or he isn't around 50 Cent more. I like how direct 50 Cent is. When he stood up to Jimmy, I was like, you go Curtis! I also remember I saw a video where 50 Cent, Paul, Marshall and Tracy were hanging out back stage and Tracy was trying to reach into 50 Cents pocket to pull out a wad of money he had and he looked at her and moved away, like why are you putting your hand in my pocket and he pulled the wad out and handed it to here as he moved away from her like, ugh this unattractive woman just tried to touch my butt.Obviously looks aren't everything, butt she is like a bull in a China shop. She's quite kitschy and garish. I don’t know much about Tracy except she helped Em get sober so I can’t comment too much about her Also I don’t think going for a woman’s looks is necessary. I think she is pretty. Just not into make up and just cuz she is tall and not a size 2 doesn’t mean she is a China shop I do agree that his camp is confusing though and I don’t trust everything they do and their intentions. But at the same time it’s all really a guess game I just know after studying royces actions for almost two years now (give me a break it’s a pandemic) that he is shady and not just with em but with almost everyone and I think he is closer to Paul than he is to Em. Idk if Paul is just crappy at his job tho or his intentions are really bad. That’s where I’m torn I get what you are saying about a woman's looks, but I am also speaking on demeanor. For example, Adele was a full-figured woman (bigger than Tracy), but she was beautiful, graceful and carried herself well. It's not about size at all. But I digress, I agree that Royce seems to have ulterior motives. I know in one of those songs he sings with Em he says they "deaded the past and it resurrected his cash." I'm like, "your cash" what about "your friendship." I personally feel the way about Paul that you feel about Royce. I don't actually think he is good at his job. He lucked out with Marshall. That is really the only superstar client he has. The rest were so-so. If he was an excellent manager, he would have a stable of talent like other great mangers have had. I believe Marshall has some mental challenge such as Asperger's that makes him not fully aware of people's motives and is easily manipulated. Sad that he doesn't have close family members who are "tough" enough and savvy enough to help him out in that area. |
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Post by matty on Feb 3, 2022 0:02:28 GMT -5
I don’t know much about Tracy except she helped Em get sober so I can’t comment too much about her Also I don’t think going for a woman’s looks is necessary. I think she is pretty. Just not into make up and just cuz she is tall and not a size 2 doesn’t mean she is a China shop I do agree that his camp is confusing though and I don’t trust everything they do and their intentions. But at the same time it’s all really a guess game I just know after studying royces actions for almost two years now (give me a break it’s a pandemic) that he is shady and not just with em but with almost everyone and I think he is closer to Paul than he is to Em. Idk if Paul is just crappy at his job tho or his intentions are really bad. That’s where I’m torn I get what you are saying about a woman's looks, but I am also speaking on demeanor. For example, Adele was a full-figured woman (bigger than Tracy), but she was beautiful, graceful and carried herself well. It's not about size at all. But I digress, I agree that Royce seems to have ulterior motives. I know in one of those songs he sings with Em he says they "deaded the past and it resurrected his cash." I'm like, "your cash" what about "your friendship." I personally feel the way about Paul that you feel about Royce. I don't actually think he is good at his job. He lucked out with Marshall. That is really the only superstar client he has. The rest were so-so. If he was an excellent manager, he would have a stable of talent like other great mangers have had. I believe Marshall has some mental challenge such as Asperger's that makes him not fully aware of people's motives and is easily manipulated. Sad that he doesn't have close family members who are "tough" enough and savvy enough to help him out in that area. Proof said Em was very gullible back in the day on a message board and a lot of ppl think Em has aspergers. I hope Paul doesn’t take advantage of it. Plus Em is just a ppl pleaser stemming from both mom and daddy issues and probably prsd. He just wants to please everyone and combined with possible aspergers it’s bad combo I think proof was honestly the only person Em was very closed to and understood Em inside and out. And now that he is gone Em just kind of gave up struggling against his team/label. Proof had a gift cuz Em wasn’t the only one he understood-I def would define him as an empath. And proof handled Em and the media so well. He never used his name to get in the papers and never brought him into petty beefs. Their friendship was private and respected on both ends. |
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Post by alphagirl01 on Feb 3, 2022 0:24:14 GMT -5
I get what you are saying about a woman's looks, but I am also speaking on demeanor. For example, Adele was a full-figured woman (bigger than Tracy), but she was beautiful, graceful and carried herself well. It's not about size at all. But I digress, I agree that Royce seems to have ulterior motives. I know in one of those songs he sings with Em he says they "deaded the past and it resurrected his cash." I'm like, "your cash" what about "your friendship." I personally feel the way about Paul that you feel about Royce. I don't actually think he is good at his job. He lucked out with Marshall. That is really the only superstar client he has. The rest were so-so. If he was an excellent manager, he would have a stable of talent like other great mangers have had. I believe Marshall has some mental challenge such as Asperger's that makes him not fully aware of people's motives and is easily manipulated. Sad that he doesn't have close family members who are "tough" enough and savvy enough to help him out in that area. Proof said Em was very gullible back in the day on a message board and a lot of ppl think Em has aspergers. I hope Paul doesn’t take advantage of it. Plus Em is just a ppl pleaser stemming from both mom and daddy issues and probably prsd. He just wants to please everyone and combined with possible aspergers it’s bad combo I think proof was honestly the only person Em was very closed to and understood Em inside and out. And now that he is gone Em just kind of gave up struggling against his team/label. Proof had a gift cuz Em wasn’t the only one he understood-I def would define him as an empath. And proof handled Em and the media so well. He never used his name to get in the papers and never brought him into petty beefs. Their friendship was private and respected on both ends. I 100% agree with what you said matty! |
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Post by Admin on Feb 3, 2022 1:35:37 GMT -5
I'm happy for Eminem and I expect him to get in. Seems like it could be a really good class to be a part of as well.
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Post by Admin on Feb 3, 2022 1:59:27 GMT -5
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Post by matty on Feb 3, 2022 7:27:12 GMT -5
Articles like this drive me crazy
When is Em ever able to freely celebrate his hard work/success? He dedicated his whole life to music/rap and is talented and ground breaking. Yes there are others that deserve to be in the hall of fame but that doesn’t mean Em doesn’t and will there ever be a good time for Em to celebrate his achievements? And be proud according to this article? Em is one of the most humble artists ever. Idk I’m not saying he deserves every award etc…but he does deserve this and he deserves to be proud even if just for a day without feeling guilty
Also where was the same energy when the beastie boys were inducted
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Post by alphagirl01 on Feb 3, 2022 7:47:22 GMT -5
Articles like this drive me crazy When is Em ever able to freely celebrate his hard work/success? He dedicated his whole life to music/rap and is talented and ground breaking. Yes there are others that deserve to be in the hall of fame but that doesn’t mean Em doesn’t and will there ever be a good time for Em to celebrate his achievements? And be proud according to this article? Em is one of the most humble artists ever. Idk I’m not saying he deserves every award etc…but he does deserve this and he deserves to be proud even if just for a day without feeling guilty , I totally see where you are coming from and Marshall totally deserves this award. But I also understand the merits of this article. This is where White privilege becomes an issue, when people rally to say how much someone deserves to have this or that. This is what Black and Brown people have been saying for years, that their talents go unrewarded, yet when someone who is White comes into the picture they are heralded out the gate. It doesn't make Marshall any less deserving, it's just the question of why him rather than all these other greats such as Eric B & Rakim, Salt-N-Pepa, Snoop Dogg, Nas, and the Wu-Tang Clan. Why have they yet to be acknowledged? Marshall himself has said these very people (except for Snoop) have influenced him. I personally believe they gave it to LL Cool J last year because they knew Marshall was going to be up for it this year and how lame to put Marshall through when his idol has been nominated for several years and still did not get in. If it weren't for some of these artists, there would be no Marshall—he has said that himself. I also believe that is why he and Paul are not promoting this because they recognize the bias and Marshall does not want to be put ahead of his idols. To me, that is what makes Marshall a great guy. Not that he is just humble, but he understands the plight and disenfranchisement of White privilege and he tries not to play into it. |
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Post by tcat on Feb 3, 2022 7:50:57 GMT -5
Articles like this drive me crazy When is Em ever able to freely celebrate his hard work/success? He dedicated his whole life to music/rap and is talented and ground breaking. Yes there are others that deserve to be in the hall of fame but that doesn’t mean Em doesn’t and will there ever be a good time for Em to celebrate his achievements? And be proud according to this article? Em is one of the most humble artists ever. Idk I’m not saying he deserves every award etc…but he does deserve this and he deserves to be proud even if just for a day without feeling guilty I am convinced that most of what the media "reports" today is designed, not to inform, but to cause controversy. If you pay attention to what is being "reported", it is clear they are just trying to piss people off because apparently, that is the only way to get any kind of attention. Media outlets are all competing for the same eyeballs and same ad dollars, so the more outrageous and controversial they are, they think the better it is for business. This is why the headline mentions race. The headline isn't designed to inform people, it is designed to appeal to people's emotions. That is why I refuse to click the link and read the article. The headline tells me all I need to know about what the author is going to say. |
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Post by matty on Feb 3, 2022 7:59:31 GMT -5
Articles like this drive me crazy When is Em ever able to freely celebrate his hard work/success? He dedicated his whole life to music/rap and is talented and ground breaking. Yes there are others that deserve to be in the hall of fame but that doesn’t mean Em doesn’t and will there ever be a good time for Em to celebrate his achievements? And be proud according to this article? Em is one of the most humble artists ever. Idk I’m not saying he deserves every award etc…but he does deserve this and he deserves to be proud even if just for a day without feeling guilty , I totally see where you are coming from and Marshall totally deserves this award. But I also understand the merits of this article. This is where White privilege becomes an issue, when people rally to say how much someone deserves to have this or that. This is what Black and Brown people have been saying for years, that their talents go unrewarded, yet when someone who is White comes into the picture they are heralded out the gate. It doesn't make Marshall any less deserving, it's just the question of why him rather than all these others greats such as Eric B & Rakim, Salt-N-Pepa, Snoop Dogg, Nas, and the Wu-Tang Clan. Why have they yet to be acknowledged? Marshall himself has said these very people (except for Snoop) have influenced him. I personally believe they gave it to LL Cool J last year because they knew Marshall was going to be up for it this year and how lame to put Marshall through when his idol has been nominated for several years and still did not get in. If it weren't for some of these artists, there would be no Marshall—he has said that himself. I also believe that is why he and Paul are not promoting this because they recognize the bias and Marshall does not want to be put ahead of his idols. To me, that is what makes Marshall a great guy. Not that he is just humble, but he understands the plight and disenfranchisement of White privilege and he tries not to play into it. Yes and same argument can be for Jay z who got in on his first go…and what about the beastie boys? I don’t think there is a bias here. Between his dedication, skills and influence he deserved this and one can argue that there will never be a right time. Instead of bashing Em why doesn’t he write an article about how tribe called quest deserves it and highlight their success? It’s not like Em parades himself at every award show. He deserves to finally be proud of a 20 plus year where he was always respectful of the pioneers. It’s not like he is Royce who publicly dissed big daddy Kane and Rick Rubin for no reason. My point is yes there are many artists in many generes that deserve to be inducted -maybe some more deserving than em…idk but since he is nominated why take away that once in a lifetime achievement/moment where I’m sure he will continue to use his platform to advocate for others deserving? Because according to this article there will be never a time where Em can just celebrate his success with his team/fans And knowing how he is he will spend he acceptance speech thanking every pioneer before him. Like all I’m saying when can he have a moment where the industry (not just his fans) celebrate his contributions without feeling like the worst person ever |
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Post by matty on Feb 3, 2022 8:20:00 GMT -5
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Post by alphagirl01 on Feb 3, 2022 8:23:07 GMT -5
matty , I totally see where you are coming from and Marshall totally deserves this award. But I also understand the merits of this article. This is where White privilege becomes an issue, when people rally to say how much someone deserves to have this or that. This is what Black and Brown people have been saying for years, that their talents go unrewarded, yet when someone who is White comes into the picture they are heralded out the gate. It doesn't make Marshall any less deserving, it's just the question of why him rather than all these others greats such as Eric B & Rakim, Salt-N-Pepa, Snoop Dogg, Nas, and the Wu-Tang Clan. Why have they yet to be acknowledged? Marshall himself has said these very people (except for Snoop) have influenced him. I personally believe they gave it to LL Cool J last year because they knew Marshall was going to be up for it this year and how lame to put Marshall through when his idol has been nominated for several years and still did not get in. If it weren't for some of these artists, there would be no Marshall—he has said that himself. I also believe that is why he and Paul are not promoting this because they recognize the bias and Marshall does not want to be put ahead of his idols. To me, that is what makes Marshall a great guy. Not that he is just humble, but he understands the plight and disenfranchisement of White privilege and he tries not to play into it. Yes and same argument can be for Jay z who got in on his first go…and what about the beastie boys? I don’t think there is a bias here. Between his dedication, skills and influence he deserved this and one can argue that there will never be a right time. Instead of bashing Em why doesn’t he write an article about how tribe called quest deserves it and highlight their success? It’s not like Em parades himself at every award show. He deserves to finally be proud of a 20 plus year where he was always respectful of the pioneers. It’s not like he is Royce who publicly dissed big daddy Kane and Rick Rubin for no reason. My point is yes there are many artists in many generes that deserve to be inducted maybe some more deserving than em…idk but since he is nominated why take away that once in a lifetime achievement/moment where I’m sure he will continue to use his platform to advocate for others deserving? Because according to this article there will be never a time where Em can just celebrate his success with his team/fans And knowing how he is he will spend he acceptance speech thanking every pioneer before him. Like all I’m saying when can u have a moment where the industry (not just fans his fans) celebrate his contributions without feeling like the worst person ever I get what you are saying matty , and to be honest this is part of what Marshall has to navigate being part of a mostly Black genre and he knows this, which is also what makes him a great artist and human—that he sticks it out even though he is constantly criticized. What he is experiencing is what Black and Brown people have shouldered for nearly 400 years in this country (America), not being valued for their contributions. I 100% believe Marshall deserves to be nominated and inducted. The industry, I believe, has no qualms with Marshall, but in my opinion, the Hip Hop side of the industry feels threatened by him and what he represents for the culture. For years they have seen White artists be heralded for what they created. There was a time when people said Hip Hop made no sense and it would not last. Then people like Salt-N-Pepa, Tupac and Kid 'N Play came in and changed the game and made it marketable. Then Marshall took it to the next level and made it marketable to a broader audience. I get your frustration and I wish Hip Hop embraced him more. To be honest, I think that is a big part of why he is a recluse. When he wasn't sober, he spent a lot of time hanging with people in the culture. And as we know, alcohol gives you courage. So what that tells me is Marshall wants to frantinize with all these people, but he just does not feel welcome. To me, that is the greatest travesty that he can not get the respect that he deserves from some people within the Hip Hop community. And as we know, he always says all he wants is the respect, not the awards. Just my two cents. By the way, please do not take anything I say as a challenge or argument. It's just a topic I am passionate about. But I totally get what you are saying, because I almost lost my marbles when I sat in on a Clubhouse rant from Dave Mays and Benzino, people who just have a vendetta against Marshall. I blame people like them for Marshall hiding out all the time. I actually listened to people say they wish he would go away and not take up space from "Black" artists and one Black guy was like why, he doesn't do anything but drop an album and disappear. Marshall truly loves Hip Hop and the sad part about it, sometimes I think Hip Hop doesn't love him back equally. He has changed the landscape and put more eyes on other artists, but for some that's just not enough. Unfortunately, I think he is shouldering the burden of what decades of racial oppression has created. Regarding The Beastie Boys, I don't think they pose a threat because they are heavily rock influenced. Marshall makes it clear he loves old school Hip Hop and that is his influence and he has mastered it in a way many have not and will not be able to do. |
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